翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick
- [Narrator] From humble beginnings to legendary award-winning journalist, -[旁白] 从卑微的出身开始，到传奇的获奖记者，
Jaime Maussan has been trusted as the voice as the people in Mexico for more than 47 years. 哈伊米.莫森作为发自墨西哥人民的声音，已经被信任超过了47年。
[主持人] 观众们将第一次有机会，接触到UFO案件的信息，
这些信息，无法用我们在地球上的技术和知识来解释。
我们的《60分钟》节目团队仔细研究了这个案例， 结果证明它是惊人的和迷人的。
加入我们谈论UFO主题的专家有：阿图鲁.加尔扎.罗德里格兹，
乔.桑帕约.克利马科先生，天文现象记者和怀疑论者。早上好。
谢谢你和我们在一起。
专家哈伊米.莫森。
大家上午好，感谢你们参与我们的节目。
- [Narrator] In the mid-90s, Maussan brought the subject of UFO's to the spotlight. -[旁白]在90年代中期，莫森把UFO这个话题，带到了聚光灯下。
- [Jaime] Then I became the anchor, and finally -[杰米]然后我成为了主持人，最后
the director of the show that was on the air until 1995. 成为了这个节目的导演，这个节目一直播出到1995年。
From then on, I became involved with something 从那时起，我开始参与一些
that I felt was very important, UFO's. 我觉得非常重要的事情，UFO。
I know many people think that they are not important, 我知道，很多人认为它们不重要,
that they are an illusion or fantasy, 它们是幻觉或想象，
but I realized that many people have cameras 但我意识到，很多人在90年代初期，
at the beginning of the 90s, 都有了便携摄像机，
and they were able to record the UFO's, 他们能够记录下不明飞行物,
and I thought that I had a chance 我认为，我有了机会，
with these evidences to change the way people think. 用这些证据，来改变人们的思维方式。
超越光谱-莫桑的不明飞行物档案 翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick
- [Narrator] Maussan has received the United Nation's Global 500 Award, -[旁白]莫森获得了联合国颁发的，全球500名杰出记者奖,
three times the National Prize of Journalism in Mexico, 三次获得墨西哥新闻奖，
the Ondas Award for journalists in Spain. 还获得了西班牙颁发的记者奖，昂达奖。
He was recognized at the capital in Washington, DC. 他在首都华盛顿，得到公认。
Currently, he is presenting Third Millennium News 目前，他每周一至周五晚上10点，
from Monday to Friday at 10 p.m. on national television. 在全国电视台主持《第三千禧年新闻》。
This news has set the standard 这一新闻节目多次刷新了
for audience records for the channel, A-Plus Amas,on several occasions. A-Plus频道的节目，在电影电视协会的收视记录。
Tercer Milenio continues to be presented every Sunday on prime time, 每周日黄金档时段的节目《Tercer Milenio》，
after 22 years of uninterrupted transmission on Mexican TV. 连续播送22年之后，还在墨西哥电视台继续播出。
- I was not gonna be a journalist. -我原来不想当一名记者。
I was gonna be an administrative worker for my father. 我将为我父亲，做行政管理工作。
He had a company, 他有家公司，
and he wished that I was able to take care of his company, 他希望我能经营他的公司,
and I never thought that I wanted to be a journalist, 我从没想过，自己会成为一名记者，
because 50 years ago the journalists in Mexico were not very honest. 因为50年前，墨西哥的记者不是很诚实。
They wanted money for everything they put on the TV or in the newspaper. 他们在电视上或报纸上发表的所有东西，都要索求费用。
My father was a rancher, 我父亲是一个牧场主，
he had bullfights, 他饲养斗牛，
he was also impresario for big bullrings. 他也是大斗牛场的经理人。
He organized bullfights. 他组织斗牛表演。
Even my aunt was a bullfighter,then I was going to become one, 甚至我的姑姑，都是斗牛士，然后，我也要成为一名斗牛士，
but at the same time my father wanted me to take care of his business. 但与此同时,我父亲想让我经营他的生意。
But in the last day when I had to choose my major, a friend of mine came to me, 但在最后一天,当我不得不选择我的专业时,我的一个朋友来到我身边,
and asked me what was gonna be my future, 问我未来会是什么样子,
what kind of major I was going to choose? 我打算从事什么行业？
Business administration,something like that. 工商管理之类，还是什么。
And he said, "Oh that's boring." 他说:“哦，那太无聊了。”
and I said, "Why?" 我说:“为什么?”
"Because it's just numbers, you know, “因为这只是数字，你知道，
"in a closed place,with no windows, so on." “在一个封闭的地方，没有窗户，等等。”
And I said, "What are you going to study?" 我说,“你打算学什么?”
He said, "Journalism." 他说:“新闻。”
And I said, "Oh, you're gonna be a corrupt man, 我说:“哦，你会成为一个腐败份子，
"you're gonna take money from people." “你会从别人那里拿钱。”
And he said, "No, journalism is to change the world. 他说,“不,新闻是改变世界。”
"Journalism is the possibility to create conscience. “新闻是创造良知的可能性。
"Journalism is traveling,journalism is going into the open, “做新闻就要去旅行，新闻是走向公开，
"and reporting what you find." 报道你的发现。”
And I liked that. 我喜欢这样。
I immediately changed my major, 我离开转换了专业，
probably the best decision I have done in my life. 可能是我这辈子，做过的最好的决定。
Then, I decided, but my father didn't like the idea, 然后，我作出决定了，但我父亲不喜欢这个主意，
and at the same time he knew that the journalists in Mexico were corrupt. 同时他知道，在墨西哥的记者是腐败的。
And I said to my father,"I will never, ever, father,take any money from anyone. 我对父亲说:“父亲，我永远，永远不会从任何人那里拿钱。
"I'm gonna be a very clean and honest journalist." “我要做一名干净、诚实的记者。”
And I have kept that promise until now. 我一直信守着这个承诺，直到现在。
I've been an honest man, all my life. 我这辈子都是个诚实的人。
And thanks to that,I've been able to develop credibility. 正因为如此，我才有了信誉。
When I was a young kid,I saw the destruction of nature, but I didn't know why I didn't like it. 当我还是个孩子的时候，我看到了对自然的破坏，但我不知道，为什么我不喜欢它。
I knew that the animals were being killed, 我知道，各种动物被杀了，
there was business doing with animals, 有人还在做动物生意，
that anybody could take an animal from their habitats,and sell it. 任何人都可以把动物从它们的栖息地带走，然后卖掉。
When I found journalism,when I found my real passion for life, 当我找到新闻,当我发现我对生活的真正热情时,
I really started to try to change my world. 我真的开始尝试，改变我的世界。
And I was able to do it in many ways, 我能够通过很多方式做到这一点，
because I worked in television with the most important journalists of Mexico. 因为我在电视上，和墨西哥最重要的记者，一起工作。
Jacobo Zabludovsky, the Walter Cronkite of the US, 雅各布·扎布多夫斯基，他就好比美国的沃尔特·克朗凯特，
a man that was very well known everywhere in Mexico, 一个在墨西哥家喻户晓的人，
and I became very close to him,in many ways, his right hand, 我和他变得非常亲近，在很多方面，就像他的右手一样，
even though I was almost a teenager. 尽管我还是一个，十几岁的孩子。
When I did my first report,I took my report to Cannes, in France. 当我做第一篇报道的时候，我把我的报道带到法国的戛纳。
I was just 19,and I received a scholarship from the US, 我只有19岁,我获得了美国的奖学金,
from an American university, 从一所美国大学毕业，
the University of Ohio. 俄亥俄州大学。
And I was able to finish my career then. 然后，我就能完成我的学业了。
When I came back I started working in journalism, 回国后，我开始从事新闻工作，
to try to protect the environment, to try to protect the woods and the jungles. 努力保护环境，努力保护森林和雨林。
I was able to find the monarch butterfly in Mexico, 我在墨西哥找到了帝王蝶,
their hidden places, where they hibernate. 它们栖居的地方，它们冬眠的地方。
Fred Urquhart, Canadian scientist, 加拿大科学家弗雷德·厄克特，
he's the one who found it. 是他找到的。
I mean he's the one who really tracked the monarch butterfly, 我的意思是，他才是真正追踪帝王蝶的人，
but when he published his article in National Geographic, he never said where it was. 但当他在《国家地理》上发表文章时，他从来没有说明，它们在哪里出现。
My network, Televisa, asked me,to go out and find the place. 我的Televisa电视台，让我去找那个地方。
It took us two years to find it, but we finally did, and I was able to present 我们花了两年的时间，才找到它，但我们终于找到了，
for the first time to the Mexican people, 我第一次能够向墨西哥人民展示了，
the monarch butterfly, and I was able to get protection for the monarch butterfly. 帝王蝶,我能够保护帝王蝶。
Then, working in 60 Minutes in Mexico as a reporter, 后来，我在墨西哥做了《60分钟》节目的记者，
I was able to get involved with the protection of the turtles. 参与了保护海龟的工作。
In Mexico we used to kill the turtles in slaughterhouses. 在墨西哥，我们过去常常在屠宰场杀死海龟。
And thanks to my reporting on 60 Minutes,they were closed, 由于我在《60分钟》的报道，这些屠宰场被关闭了，
and we created laws to protect the turtles,and that's the reason why 我们制定了保护海龟的法律，这就是为什么
some of the species of turtles have now recuperated. 一些海龟物种，现在已经恢复了。
Then, I was able to do many things to speak about the climate change, 那时，在1986年，我可以做很多关于气候变化
or the global warming, back in 1986. 或全球变暖的事情。
I was able to speak about the El Nino current in '87, 我在87年，谈到过“厄尔尼诺现象”，
or the depletion of the ozone layer in '88. 或者在1988年，谈到过“臭氧层的损耗”。
We were just two journalists from all around the world, 我们只是两个来自世界各地的记者，
who went with NASA to the North Pole, 我们和NASA一起去了北极，
to report if there was a hole in the North Pole, 去报道北极是否有一个“臭氧层洞”，
as the one that had been observed in the South Pole. 就像在南极观察到的那个“洞”一样。
They found that no, there was not a hole, 他们发现没有，没有“臭氧层破洞”，
it was a little bit depleted, 有一点耗尽了，
but we didn't have the same problem, 但我们没有遇到，同样的问题，
because the currents are different in both poles. 因为南北两极的气流，是不同的。
Anyway, I was able to be there with a German journalist, 不管怎样,我能和一个德国记者在一起,
and even the NASA people were amazed, 甚至，美国国家航空和宇宙航行局的人都很惊讶,
they said, a reporter, a journalist from a tropical country is here. 他们说,一个记者,一个来自热带国家的记者，居然会在这里。
Why, the Americans, why,the Europeans, are not here? 为什么，美国人，为什么，欧洲人，不在这里?
But I was very much involved in the protection of environment, 但我非常热衷于环境保护，
and when I found that news, Televisa allowed me to go and participate with NASA, 当我发现这个消息时，Televisa电视台允许我，去和美国国家航空和宇宙航行局
in this investigation back in January, 1988. 一起参与，1988年1月的调查。
And I was able to do many other things, like for example, 我还能做很多其他的事情,比如,
to help the Tarahumaras in the Sierra in Mexico. 帮助墨西哥山区的塔拉乌马拉人。
They were dying of hunger and cold, 他们当时在忍饥挨饿，
also in '88, '87, 也就是88、87年时，
and we were able to get thousands of funds of food for them, 我们通过《60分钟》在墨西哥的报道，为他们筹集了
with a report on 60 Minutes in Mexico. 成千上万的食物资金。
Then I became the anchor, and finally the director of this show that was on the air until 1995. 然后我成为了主持人，最后成为了这个节目的导演，这个节目一直播出到1995年。
From then on, I became involved 从那时起，我开始参与
with something that I thought was very important, UFO's. 一些我认为非常重要的事情，UFO。
I know many people think that they are not important, 我知道，很多人认为它们不重要，
that they are an illusion or fantasy, 觉得它们是幻觉或想象。
but I realized that many people have cameras, 但我意识到，从九十年代初起，现在很多人
at the beginning of the 90's, 都有便携摄像机，
and they were able to record the UFO's. 他们能够记录下，UFO的影像。
And I thought that I had a chance, 我以为，我有机会,
with these evidences, to change the way people think. 有了这些证据，就能改变人们的思考方式。
Back in 1991, 回到1991年，
there was a total solar eclipse in Mexico, 在墨西哥，有一次日全蚀,
probably the longest,or the second longest in the whole century, 可能是历时最长的一次，或者是整个世纪的第二长的一次，
six minutes and 54 seconds. 6分54秒。
And people, many people in Mexico recorded the solar eclipse, but some people got UFO's, 当时在墨西哥的许多人记录了日蚀,但有些人，发现了UFO,
in the middle of the videos,and I thought that was very important. 就在拍摄的视频里，我当时觉得这很重要。
这一天文现象发生在我国的几个小时后，
新闻电视节目《与雅各布·扎布多夫斯基24小时连线》播出了，
吉列尔莫·阿雷金的视频，视频中飞碟出现了
上面是银色的，底部是深色的
它似乎在旋转，在墨西哥上空飞行了几分钟。
几天后，出现了更多的视频，这是开始，
这是90年代最重要的UFO现象激增的开始，一直持续到今天。
但这也重新点燃了墨西哥人，仰望天空的文化。
显然，也有人说，这是对图像的误解，或者这是金星。然而，直到2009年，
这些声音都没有再提出任何分析或研究，来结束争论。
我们清楚的是，这个不明飞行物是在墨西哥中部的不同地方
被看到的，这意味着这不是一个人编造的，
因为大多数视频中，都出现了相同的物体。
这段视频在世界各地都能看到，并在不同的电视节目中播出。
这次日全蚀，开启了我国研究不明飞行物现象的新时代，
因为人们掌握了必要的技术来记录，
那些以前只能谈论，或说
“我看到了一个”的奇怪的不明飞行物。
因此，他们知道，摄像机有多重要...
- I was invited to this program because I had done a report on 60 Minutes about Billy Meier, 我被邀请参加这个节目，是因为我在《60分钟》上做了一个关于比利·迈耶的报道，
and people identified me, 人们认出了我，
but as a matter of fact,I didn't want to go to this television show, 但事实上，我不想去参与这个电视节目，
because I thought that UFO's were not good for journalists, 因为我认为UFO事件对新闻报道不好，
that they were very risky, 它们非常冒险，
and I shouldn't get involved with this. 我不应该卷进来。
But my company, my network, 但我的公司，我的电视台，
I don't need to go to this show (foreign words). 我不需要参加这个节目（用西班牙语说）。
美国CBS电视台著名主持人：迈克.华莱士
And it was so successful they asked me to go for a second time, and I didn't want to go. 节目非常成功，他们让我再去出镜一次，我不想去了。
I really didn't want to go.I said, "That's it, no more UFO's please." 我真的不想去。我说,“就这样,不要再提什么UFO了。”
But this man insisted. 但是这个人很坚持。
"Please, this is the last time.Let's do another show, “求你了，这是最后一次。我们来做另一个节目，
"because you know how many people saw this, “因为你知道，有多少人看到了这个，
"millions and millions and millions of people,and I want to do a new one." “数以百万计的人，我想做一个新的节目。”
And I say okay, but this is the last one. 我说好吧，但这是最后一次了。
This is really the last show. 这真的是最后一期节目了。
And I went there and I was able to find these videos, 我去那里，找到了这些视频，
that were recorded by some people of the eclipse, where they found UFO's. 被一些拍日蚀的人记录下来，他们在那里，发现了不明飞行物。
When I presented this,very early in the morning, 当我在大清早，展示这个的时候，
probably three of four o'clock in the morning,it was a revolution. 大概在凌晨3点到4点，这简直就是一场革命。
Thousands of people came to the television. 成千上万的人来到电视机前。
At five o'clock in the morning there were more than five or 10 thousand people outside the station, 早晨五点钟，节目制作间外已经有五千到一万多人，
because they wanted to get in, because they were so excited with these videos,and after that show, 因为他们想进去，因为他们对这些视频很兴奋，在那个节目之后，
nothing was the same for me in my life. 我一辈子都没见过这个场面。
I received many invitations from different universities in Mexico, 我收到了许多来自墨西哥不同大学的邀请，
then I received invitations from international congresses around the world, and I couldn't get away.I couldn't get away anymore. 然后我收到了来自世界各地国际会议的邀请，我无法脱身。我再也逃不掉了。
Then I started, even without, 然后我开始，甚至没有想过
even thinking to get so much involved,because people send me videos. 要参与这么多，因为人们给我发视频。
I have hundreds of videos of UFO's. 我有几百个UFO的视频。
And then I realized that this was very important, 然后我意识到，这很重要，
this was a new phenomenon,a phenomenon inside a phenomenon, 这是一个新现象，一个透过现象中的现象，
where people were recording these things with cameras, because everybody had a camera now. 人们用相机记录这些事情，因为现在每个人都有相机。
Or many people had a camera,VHS, back in '90-'91. 90-91年的时候，很多人都有家庭摄像机。
And I thought with the development of technology, 我想，随着科技的发展，
more and more and more people are gonna have cameras. 越来越多的人会有随身相机。
And then I said, "Well,I am very sure in the future, 然后我说，“好吧，我很确定在未来，
"everyone is gonna have a camera,and we will be able to have “每个人都会有一台摄相机，我们将会有
"many more videos, many more evidences." “更多的视频，更多的证据。”
And I started to promote people to watch the sky, 我开始鼓励人们，去仰望天空，
when they have time to watch the sky, 当他们有时间观察天空时，
and record whatever was there. 记录下看到的一切。
I never thought this was gonna be successful, 我从没想过会成功，
but then I received one video recorded by one person, 但后来我收到了一个人录制的视频，
and then another, 然后又有了一个，
and another, and another, 一个接着一个，
and then dozens, and then hundreds, 然后是几十个，几百个，
and then I didn't know what to do with so much evidence I had. 然后我不知道，该怎么处理这么多证据。
And 1995 ended 60 Minutes, 1995年《60分钟》结束了，
and I received more and more invitations to present conferences. 我收到了越来越多的邀请，出席会议。
And I went all around Mexico, 我走遍了墨西哥，
and I mean all around Mexico, 我是说，在墨西哥各地,
presenting all the evidences, 展示所有的证据,
with full theaters, and I'm talking a thousand people, two thousand people, everywhere. 在一个满座的剧院，我说的是1000人，2000人，到处都是。
And I couldn't escape anymore, and then I became the center of this phenomenon in Mexico. 我再也逃不掉了，然后我就成了墨西哥这种现象的中心。
In 1997, I started that show,Tercer Milenio, on Televisa, 1997年，我在Televisa电视台创办了《第三个千禧年》节目，
that lasted until 2003, 这一直持续到2003年，
then went out of the air. 然后从空中消失了。
- [Man] Tercer Milenio. -[男声]第三个千禧年。
(in foreign language)
- That Televisa is a huge network, -Televisa是个巨大的媒体网络，
the national network in Mexico,asked me to come back and present 墨西哥的广电网让我回来，在2004年，继续主持
Tercer Milenio in 2004. 第三个千禧年。
(eerie electronic music) (怪异的电子音乐)
我们正处在一个不断变化的现实之中。
它离我们越来越近了
在英格兰的农田里出现的清晰的信息，
不能被认为是几个小丑的恶作剧。
我们的工作，就是把这些信息带给你们，让你们更接近。
这是一个相遇的时代。
我们必须认识到，我们生活在一个非常时期。
And I did it,and I have, I've been on the air since 2004 until now. 我做到了，我从2004年开始就一直在直播，直到现在。
Very successful show. 非常成功的节目。
Now it's running in a different network,also a national network, Azteca. 现在它在一个不同的网络上运行,也是一个国家网络,Azteca。
And we have even growing 我们的人数甚至在增长，
in numbers, in ratings. 收视率也在上升。
Around two million people watch the show every week, 每周大约有200万人观看这个节目，
which should probably be considered 这应该被认为是
the most successful show on UFO's around the world. 世界上最成功的UFO节目。
(rock music) [摇滚音乐]
- UFO's have been the stuff of conspiracy theorists for decades, —不明飞行物多年来一直是阴谋论者的东西,
often mocked for talking about it,but maybe they shouldn't be mocked. 经常被嘲笑用来谈论它，但也许他们不应该被嘲笑。
Commander David Fravor spent 18 years as naval aviator or pilot. 指挥官大卫·弗雷夫在海军航空兵担任了18年的飞行员。
In 2004 he had an unforgettable encounter 2004年，他与一架，据他说是，
with an aircraft he said was defying the laws of physics. 违反物理定律的飞机，有过一次难忘的邂逅。
Well Commander Fravor joins us tonight. 弗雷夫海军中校，今晚来到了我们的节目。
Thanks a lot for coming on tonight. 非常感谢，今晚能来。
Tell us what you saw. 告诉我们，你当时看到了什么。
- We had launched on a routine training mission. —我们开始了例行的训练任务。
When we joined up we were told that the event was gonna be canceled, 当我们加入时，我们被告知活动要取消了，
and that we have real-world tasking,and we were sent out to the west. 我们有现实世界的任务，我们被派往西方。
Now take in mind that this is taking place about a hundred miles southwest of San Diego, 现在请记住，这发生在圣地亚哥西南100英里处，
between San Diego and Ensenada, Mexico,on a clear, perfect day, blue waters. 在圣地亚哥和墨西哥的恩塞纳达之间，在一个晴朗、完美的日子里，海水湛蓝。
We get out to the spot where they tell us it's at. 我们飞往他们让我们去的地点。
We start looking around, 我们开始环顾四周，
and both of us, both airplanes see a disturbance in the water, 我们两个，两架飞机都看到了水面的扰动，
and white, 40-foot long,Tic Tac-shaped object, 白色的，40英尺长，碳化钛合金形状的物体，
just hovering above the water,going forward, back, left, right. 只是在水面上盘旋，向前，向后，向左，向右。
There's no rotor wash,there's no wings, nothing. 没有旋翼，没有机翼，什么都没有。
So as we drive around in a clockwise flow, we get to about the nine o'clock position, 所以当我们沿着顺时针方向行驶时，我们到达了九点钟的位置，
and I said, well I'm gonna go down and check it out, and the other jet is gonna stay high. 我说，我要下去检查一下，另一个喷气发动机会保持在高处。
So as we go down and when we get to the 12 o'clock position, it starts to mirror us. 当我们下降,当我们到达12点的位置时,它开始与我们做镜像运动。
So it's in a clockwise flow and it's on the opposite side of the circle from us,and we continue this. 所以它是顺时针流动的它在圆的另一边，我们继续这样。
It's in a climb, we're in a descent. 它在爬升，我们在下降。
We're getting a great look at it,this whole thing takes about 我们可以很好地观察它，从我们出现开始，
probably up to five minutes from the time we show up. 整个过程，大约需要五分钟。
I get over to the eight o'clock position,it's at about the two o'clock position, 我移到8点钟的位置，它在2点钟的位置，
and I decide I'm gonna go and see what it is, 我决定去看看那是什么，
and it's about 2,000 feet below me,and I cut across the circle, 它在我下面大约2000英尺，我穿过这个圆圈，
and as I get within about a half-mile of it, 当我处于离它不到半英里的地方，
it rapidly accelerates to the south in about two seconds and disappears. 它在大约在两秒内，迅速向南加速，并消失了。
- What would you estimate the speed? -你估计的速度是多少?
- Well above supersonic. -远比超音速还快。
It, like a bullet out of a gun, it took off. 就像一颗子弹从枪里出来，它起飞了。
- So from what you know about aerodynamics, mechanics, -从你对空气动力学、力学、
physics, should this be possible, what you saw? 物理学的了解来看，你认为这是可能的吗?
- Not with the technology that we have today,not at all. -以我们今天的技术，根本不可能。
- Even now, even 13 years later,is there anything that you know of, capable of this kind of behavior? -即使是现在，即使是13年过去了，你知道有什么东西，能做出这种行为吗?
- No, there's nothing I know of. -没有，我不知道什么东西可以这样。
When we saw the video with the IR,it has no exhaust, 当我们看到红外的视频时，它居然没有排气，
no discernible things of any form of propulsion, 没有任何形式的推进力，
and this thing came from a dead hover over the water, 这个东西从水面上悬停下来，
just kind of moving around to a climb up to about 12,000 feet, 只是四处移动，爬升到12000英尺，
to rapidly accelerating away in a climb,and in less than two seconds it was gone. 在爬升过程中迅速加速，不到两秒钟就消失了。
And you figure, you're talking 50 miles of visibility, 你要明白，你说的是50英里的能见度，
and you can easily see an object that size, 你可以很容易地看到一个那么大的物体，
easily after 10 miles, and it just disappeared in seconds. 在10英里后，它就在几秒钟内消失了。
- What would be the effects on a human pilot, -克服这么大高度变化的重力加速度，
the G forces involved in that altitude change? 对人类飞行员来说，会有什么影响？
- Well the altitude wouldn't be bad,it would be the acceleration of the object. -好吧，高度不成问题，它会是克服物体的加速度。
- Right. -没错。
- Honestly, I wanted to fly it. -说实话，我想驾驶它。
You know talking to some physicists, 跟一些物理学家聊过，
they don't think the human body could handle that kind of force 他们认为人体无法承受这种力量
with that acceleration. - Yeah, it doesn't,it doesn't sound like the human body could. 有这样的加速度。 -是啊，听起来不像是人体能做到的。
So bottom line, what do you think this was? 最重要的是，你认为这是什么东西？
- I believe as do the other folks that were on the flight when we visually saw it, -我相信，我们机组的其他人在亲眼看到它时，都认为
that it was something not from this world. 这不是一个，来自这个世界的东西。
- Presumably you expressed that belief to your superiors,what did they say? — 想必,你向上级表达了这种想法，他们怎么说?
- Actually we caught a lot of grief getting back to the boat, -事实上,我们很灰心地回到舰船上,
and it got passed off as an event that no one could explain. 它被当作一个没人能解释的事件来处理。
Now keep in mind, they had been tracking these for two weeks prior to us seeing it, 现在请记住，在我们看到它之前，他们已经追踪了两个星期，
and this was the first time that manned airplanes had been airborne when the objects appeared. 这是第一次，在有人驾驶的飞机上，在空中，看到了目标的出现。
- This feels like a really big story to me, -这对我来说，是个大新闻，
it's not exactly clear why Vladimir Putin's more interesting than this. 就连关于弗拉基米尔·普京的报道，显然不如它更有趣。
I think this seems like a big deal, 我觉得这看起来是件大事，
and Commander, I appreciate your taking the time to talk do us about it. 中校，我很感谢你抽出时间和我们谈论这件事。
[哈伊米.莫森]就在那个时候，你被那些物体包围了
-[玛格达雷诺] 根据我在机舱里，从首席行动协调员那里
听到的信息，他看到，有一个时刻，
他在屏幕上看到了这次行动，他提到，它们在后面
他们在我们左边和前面、后面。
就在那一刻，我感觉有点紧张。
但是，尽管如此，他们从来没有看到它们?
我们永远无法用肉眼识别它
所以只有通过前视红外，才能探测到这些物体的存在?
是的，精确地说，只有红外前视红外系统
也就是说，它们是肉眼看不见的?
我认为是这样，因为没有一个机组成员能观察到它，仅凭肉眼。
从那个距离，你应该能看到他们吗?
我们最近的距离是两英里，一个正常的物体
或一架正常的飞机，经验告诉我们，我们可以识别到它们的。
这就是我们从这次行动中，得到的问题
- Back in 2004, the Secretary of Defense in Mexico —早在2004年，墨西哥的国防部长
called me to deliver a video to me. 打电话给我，给我一段视频。
They recorded this video on March the 5th, 2004. 他们在2004年3月5日录制了这段视频。
It goes to the Campeche area, 它发生在坎佩切地区，
but the plane was in the middle of the jungle. 但飞机是在丛林中。
They were able to record these lights, 他们能够记录下这些光，
following the airplane. 跟随着飞机。
There were 11 lights following the airplane. 飞机后面有11束灯光。
The Mexican scientist went to the television to say, 这位墨西哥科学家在电视上说,
that they were, how you say, lightning,or energy in the air, 它们是，你怎么说，闪电，或者空气中的能量，
ball lightning. 球状闪电。
11 ball lightning, following and surrounding an airplane. 11个球状闪电,跟随和包围着飞机。
They went to the Secretary of Defense later and said, 他们后来去找国防部长说,
oh we are sorry,oh we were wrong, sorry. 哦，对不起，哦，我们错了，对不起。
But they had never said that publicly, you see? 但他们从来没有公开说过，你明白吗?
But they know they were wrong, 但他们知道自己错了，
because the Secretary of Defense wouldn't deliver a video of UFO's, 因为国防部长如果知道是别的东西，他是不会发布
if he knew it was something else. 不明飞行体的视频的。
Then I can tell you, 那我告诉你，
that proves that in Mexico even the authorities are ready to accept this. 这证明，在墨西哥，就连当局也准备接受这一点。
The only reason we don't do it,is because we don't want to confront the US. 我们不这么做的唯一原因是，我们不想与美国对抗。
We don't want to confront the scientists from the US, 我们不想与来自美国的科学家对抗，
because they would make fun of the Mexican government, 因为他们会取笑墨西哥政府，
and they would make jokes about that,and nobody's ready for that. 他们会拿这个开玩笑，没人准备好忍受这些。
“...关于目标的更多信息。”
-它以航速206，在3.01的航道上。
-它来了，它来了。它去那儿了，它去那儿啦。
你怎么到现在才发现它？
怎么了，华雷斯?华雷斯，这是什么?
它就是一个点。
一个点。
它就在那儿。
就在我们正后方。
没错，在7点钟方向，距离为10.5英里。
它的速度是2.83和3.34。好吧，我快要在雷达上
失去它了，它就要离开了。
好吧,这是可怕的。哦，太可惜了
我在雷达上，然后…
现在距离是31.8英里，我正在失去它。
好的。
从那里，它应该会到达卡门
我在屏幕上再也看不见它了，它好像跑远了。
超过了雷达范围的37英里。
现在，应在卡门上空了。
那里...卡门那里应能看到。
是的，让我查一下。
在7点钟方向的同一高度上。
有些云层，那里有点[听不清]...
我们在这里看到的是...有些重要的表象
需要来评述，除了501分队成员之间的音频对话，
你可以看到两个非常大的亮光，在它们下面
在它们的下面，还有一个不怎么亮的点，
但那是X表示最大热量的地方。
也就是说，这些亮光的最大能量点，正是下面的点
我们看看，这里有什么?
什么都没有，长官。
好的[听不清]...
中校，那是什么？
距离是多少?特雷滋？
嘿，准备好...这就像...
还有更多，更多的在后面。
有10或者11个物体... [交叉谈话声]...
还有一个重要的表象是，我们发现这个物体在移动，
这表明，这些移动物体，实际上是油井，燃烧的油井。
但我们可以清楚地看到，以云为参照，
它或多或少保持稳定，当云移动时，物体也在移动
而云看起来是静止的。另一个很重要的方面，我想让你们看看这些数字
在那里你们会看到一个零，
在零里面是一个小箭头。箭头表示前视红外摄像机的倾斜度。
他们走了，他们走了
三、四、五、六...他们有六个...
也就是说，它确实是水平的。它没有聚焦在地面上
它实际上是面向地平线的，飞机在3500米的高度飞行。
它们在快速移动，一，二，三，四，五，六，七
八个在屏幕上
跟踪他们，别弄丢了。
他们在同一高度吗，特雷滋?
可以肯定。
有点儿
8、9、10、11，算上尾巴那个...2、4、5、8、10、11
我们不知道我们看到了什么。这些是一些发光的物体
和我们在同一高度，抱歉，我们不知道距离多少
多远？什么方位，特雷滋？
在八点半方向。
九点钟方向。我不认为雷达会发现它。这里有一个死角
这是一个，但这是另一个在9点
我们在九点方向，还看到一个。
让我看看九点方向那个
前面还有两个。
他们在前面，在中间，在8点钟
[交叉谈话声]
系好安全带
别吓着我。
看看窗外。大约1点钟有一个，
其他的都在9点钟方位。
他们把你包围了吗？
我不清楚。
多远？
从雷达上看，我只能知道...[听不清]...
今天你很幸运，小伙子。
我们并不孤独。
是的，我们不孤独。
它们包围了我们
有一个在1点钟方向。
在1点钟方向，离我有14.8英里，航向99，速度52
他跟着一个，我跟着另一个
[交叉谈话声]
好的，红外雷达上显示出了一个，我们正在红外雷达上盯着它呢，
它是一个发光的物体。它和我们的方向相反
但它不会离开我们。它在我们后面两英里
它不会离开我们。再说一次，这是...不，它不会离开
以前雷达从未探测到的，现在却探测到了
(laughing) [笑声]
- I received a call from the Secretary of the Secretary of Defense in Mexico. -我接到了墨西哥国防部长秘书打来的电话。
He asked me to come. 他叫我来。
I had an appointment, I went there,I sit down in an office, nobody was there. 我定了个时间，我去了那里，我坐在办公室里，那里却没人。
When I realized I was in the drug traffic, 当时我的感觉就像是，我参与了毒品交易，
from the administration from the military, 从政府到军队，
and I said, Jesus Christ,what happened? 我说，天哪，怎么了?
Did somebody say that I did something? 有人说我做了什么吗?
What I'm doing here? 我在这里做什么?
I have to go, I have to go. 我得走了，我得走了。
This is no good. 这没有好事。
And then they came and said, Mister Maussan,can you come with us please? 然后他们过来对我说，莫森先生，你能跟我们一起去吗?
And I says, Jesus Christ,what is gonna happen now? 我说，耶稣基督，现在会发生什么?
And they took me to a little theater, 他们带我去了一个小剧院，
and they put the video, and they all said, 他们放了视频，他们都说，
"Can you explain this please?" “你能解释一下吗?”
And I saw it, and I said, 我看完了，我说，
"Jesus, are these things following the airplane?" “天哪，这些东西跟在飞机后面吗?”
"Yes, and they surrounded the airplane." “是的，他们包围了飞机。”
"Can I talk to the pilot?" “我能和飞行员谈谈吗?”
"No, first tell us what you think." “不能，先告诉我们，你的想法。”
And I said, "Well, I think they are UFO's." 我说:“嗯，我认为它们是UFO。”
The video had been recorded with a FLIR camera. 这段视频是用红外摄像机录制的。
This camera was in 2004, just for the military. 这台摄像机是2004年的，专为军方设计的。
It was a very specialized camera, 这是一个非常专业的摄像机，
that could track the infrared, 可以用红外线进行热寻踪，
and could track the heat in the airplane. 可以跟踪飞机上散发的热量。
They were using this camera 他们在飞机上
in this airplane because they were looking for 使用这个摄像头，是因为他们在寻找
narcotics from, drugs from South America, 毒品，来自南美的毒品，
and they were in the area where 他们在墨西哥最狭窄的地区，
is the shortest in Mexico,from coast to coast, 从海岸到海岸，
and the airplanes had to go through there, 飞机必须经过那里，
and it was fairly easy to track these drug dealers. 追踪这些毒贩相当容易。
And they used this as special equipment. 他们把这当作特殊设备。
And the military, saw these lights. 而军方,却看到了这些发光体。
They couldn't see the lights with their eyes. 他们用肉眼，却看不到光亮。
They just saw it with the camera, 他们只是用相机看到了它，
but they knew, they had a screen, 但他们知道，他们在飞机上
in the airplane and they were looking at the screen, 有一个屏幕，他们看着屏幕，
even though they couldn't find it 即使他们在空中，
in the air, in the atmosphere. 在大气层中，找不到它。
It was in the camera, 在那台摄像机里，
and they got very nervous, 他们非常紧张，
especially when they were surrounded by these lights. 特别是，当他们被这些发光体，包围的时候。
The captain turn off 机长关掉了
the navigation lights, 航行灯光，
because he thought he was gonna be confronted, by these UFO's. 因为他认为，他会被这些不明飞行物所对峙。
Then some people came, 然后一些人来了，
and tried to explain that video, 试图讲解这个视频,
saying that they were oil rigs. 说他们是石油钻井平台。
- [Interviewer] Letting off fire? -[采访者]还放着火吗?
- Exactly, and some other things, -没错，还有其他一些事
missiles, and so many really crazy things. 导弹,还有很多非常疯狂的东西。
But the military were there every day, 但是军队每天都在那里，
for many hours, in the same place, 在同一个地方呆上几个小时，
and they never saw something like this,and they couldn't explain it. 他们从来没有看到过，这样的事情，他们也无法解释。
When I told them that these were UFO's, 当我告诉他们，这些是UFO的时候，
they said, "Okay, thank you very much Mister Maussan." 他们说:“好的，非常感谢你，莫森先生。”
And I left, they didn't tell me anything else. 我离开了,他们没有告诉我，其他的东西。
I received a call again, 我又接到了一个电话，
a couple of days later, 在几天之后，
and they say, the Secretary of Defense 他们说，国防部长
wants to see you personally, in his office. 想亲自见你，去他的办公室。
I went there,and he asked me, "What do you think they are?" 我去了那里，他问我:“你觉得它们是什么?”
And I said, "UFO's. 我说，“是UFO。
"Can I talk to the crew?" “我能和机组成员谈谈吗?”
"You will, you will. “你会的，你会的。
"You are gonna be the only one who is gonna do that. “你将是唯一会这么做的人。
"I'm gonna give you the tape,you can do whatever you want. “我把录像带给你，你想怎么做都行。
"Just remember that you have the honor and the pride “只要你记住，你手中掌握的是
"of the Armed Forces of Mexico in your hands. “墨西哥武装部队的尊严与荣耀。
"Be very careful." “请千万小心。”
当转向坎佩切市时，前红外摄像机操作员
发现了一个目标，一个没有形状的目标。它在发光。它被
红外线摄像机探测到...它一直被镜头所观察到。
后来我们发现，我们...我们在飞机左侧看到了其他目标。
显然，有11个目标。
我们从来没有看到过它们。
在这种情况下，我们可以假设这11个点，
产生热量，通过红外成像图像可以看到
即使它们是不可见的?
他们在那里，我们参照他们的位置
他们总是在我们的左边，以同样的高度飞行，大约在
以同样的高度和差不多同样的速度飞行。我们试着去找到
一个图像点，一直都是热的，完全是热的。
非常热？
很热。它们并不是不规则的形状，它们总是圆形的。
就飞机而言，前探测到的情况，属于不规则的吗？
是的，它可能是不规则的，因为它们没有形状...
它们的形状和我以前见过的任何物体都不一样。
换句话说，你们没有类似事件的先例吗?
这种事从来没有发生在我身上...
我不知道该说什么。我不能告诉你，那是什么。
我无法把这次经历，和以前发生的事情联系起来。
- "If somebody asks you who gave you this video..." —“如果有人问你，谁给了你这段视频...”
I thought, oh he's gonna say, 我会想一下，他就会说，
you don't know who gave you this. 你不知道是谁给你的。
"...you are gonna say, “...你会说，
"that the Secretary of Defense gave you this video." “国防部长给了你这个视频。”
And I said, Jesus Christ. 而我说，是耶稣基督。
My pants almost fell down. 我的裤子差点掉下来。
I have this evidence, they have given me this evidence, 我有这个证据，他们给了我这个证据，
and the Secretary of Defense of Mexico 墨西哥国防部长
was supporting me,whatever I did with this. 支持我，不管我怎么做。
I felt a big responsibility. 我感到责任重大。
I investigated everything I could with this tape. 我尽我所能，调查了这盘带子。
I had a chance to interview all the crew, 我有机会采访了所有的机组人员，
the captain, and the cameraman, 机长，摄影操作员，
and everyone that was inside the plane,and all of them told me, 以及飞机里的每个人，他们都告诉我，
this is real, we've never seen anything like this. 这是真的，我们从未见过这样的事情。
And then I presented this video 然后，我在墨西哥的一个
in a national television program in Mexico, 国家电视节目中，展示了这个视频，
in the newscast, in the most important newscast,on May the 9th, 在新闻节目中，在最重要的新闻节目中，
or the 10th, of 2004. 在2004年5月9日或10日。
The next day I gave a press conference, 第二天我开了一个新闻发布会，
and all the international media 所有的国际媒体
came to the press conference. 都来参加了这次媒体见面会。
I gave them this video,and next night, or that night, 我给了他们这个视频，第二天晚上，或者当天晚上，
it was everywhere around the world,in every single newscast. 在全世界各处的电视新闻节目中就播出了。
I don't think there is a sighting of UFO's, 我至今还不认为，各地之前发生的
that has been presented everywhere like this happened in 2004. UFO目睹事件，与2004年发生的这次是一样的。
And then I thought that I had done my job the best I could. 然后我想，我已经尽了最大的努力（来调查它）。
I never expected the explanations that were going to be given to this video, 我从未预料到，对这个视频的解释，
incredible video, were gonna be so stupid as they were. 这个不可思议的视频，对它的诸多解释，是那样的愚蠢。
[玛丽露.卡里略]2004年3月5日，在一架飞越坎佩切市的飞机上，
墨西哥空军的控制塔，注意到几个发光的物体。
同年5月，我们的导演哈伊米.莫森经过严格的调查，
在新闻发布会上，讲述了发生的事情。
正常情况下，人眼或相机镜头捕捉不到的物体，
但可以被红外或前视红外摄像机捕捉到。
不明飞行物学，现在有了另一个视频，
支持“隐形不明飞行物”存在的假设。
这导致了观察“隐形不明飞行物”项目的发展，
在墨西哥，这导致了一个项目的发展，证实了这一假设。
一个叫佩德罗·阿维拉的人
他是天体观测的倡导者，他创造出一个技术装置，
他用了两台摄像机，一台是普通的，另一台是具有红外功能的。
这些都是已经设定好的，并且有相同的目标。它们都有相同的变焦质量
旨在捕获框架图像，以实现并行记录系统
其中一台相机可以捕获另一台相机无法捕获的内容
即人眼无法看到的内容。
[佩德罗.阿维拉]我开始做一些测试，看着天空，试图捕捉
移动的东西。但后来我开始意识到
有些物体是人眼无法看到的，是正常人无法捕捉到的
只能用红外线相机捕捉到。就是这个。这是一个发光体。
这不是反射。看，如果我把镜头移到右边
然后再移到左边，就有了。我向下移动，向上移动，它还在静止不动。
有趣的是，即使我用双筒望远镜，我也看不到它
我要试着靠近点检查一下我之前看到的，因为这是
一条航线。我听到一架飞机来了。我做的时候要保持安静
它正在关闭。它正在关闭。这是一去不复返了。哦,天呐。
同年7月，这个视频证实了这一点，
而在同时，很多人还在推测。
我可以向世界展示，捕捉物体的图像是可能的
可以用红外线显影捕捉到，人眼看不见的物体的图像。
在开发了系统之后，
一群法国人、科学家和其他研究人员创建了
三个研究项目。他们甚至建立了一个太空天文台来记录不明飞行物。
他们以我的名字，命名主程序，以纪念我的发现
在欧洲UFO调查的主页上
有对这项技术的描述，并在他们的YouTube网站频道上的进行采访，
以纪念佩德罗·阿维拉，他在卧室里设计了这种机械装置。
并且已经在国家版权协会进行了注册
我真的很高兴，这是由墨西哥人完成的，因为我们知道这一点
因为我们知道墨西哥是与UFO现象有关的事情的先锋之一
正常光谱和红外光谱同步录像系统。
这是佩德罗·阿维拉开发的系统的官方名称，他是一名监视空域的墨西哥人
他是这项技术的创造者，
有人说这项技术是研究全球不明飞行物现象的工具
首先，我很自豪地知道
我在这里展示的东西，是真实的。这是真的是由
佩德罗.阿维拉制造出来的，他是天空观测者组织的全国负责人
他从这个窗口记录了最惊人的不明飞行物
他是这项技术的创造者，它的官方名称是：
普通光谱与红外光谱同步录像记录仪
- After I learned that there were UFO's that were invisible to the eye, -在我得知，有肉眼看不见的不明飞行物之后，
I proposed that idea on television, 我在电视上提出了这个想法，
and Pedro Avila,a UFO hunter, 而不明飞行物“猎人”佩德罗·阿维拉，
who cannot walk, 他不能走路，
he's in a chair, 他坐在一把椅子上，
he's looking through his window all day long, 他整天从窗户往外看，
built a device, to put two cameras, 他制造了一个装置，安装了两个摄像头，
one infrared and one normal spectrum, 一个红外线摄像头，一个普通光谱摄像头，
and he was able, it's the only time that this has every been done everywhere 他能够，这是唯一一次在任何地方
where you have camera recording in the normal spectrum, 用摄像机记录正常光谱，
and the other camera in the infrared, and you can see these objects in the infrared, 另一台摄像机记录红外线，你可以在红外线中看到这些物体，
and you cannot really see anything in the normal spectrum, 而你不能在正常光谱中，看到任何东西，
proving that there are UFO's that are not visible to the eye, to the sight. 证明有肉眼看不见的UFO，用肉眼看不见。
And I think that was very important. 我认为，这是非常重要的。
From then one, more and more people 从那时起，越来越多的人，
and with the development of technology, 随着科技的发展，
even the FLIR technology now, 甚至现在的前视红外技术，
available to many people, to almost anyone, 被很多人，几乎所有人使用，
who wants to have a FLIR camera, now you can have it. 只要你想拥有一台红外摄像机，你就可以拥有它。
And now many people are recording these invisible UFO's, 现在很多人都在记录这些看不见的UFO，
everywhere, and it is just amazing. 到处都是，真是太神奇了。
And we are proving now that what was said 15 years ago, 我们现在正在证明15年前说过的话，
with the military in Mexico, 墨西哥军方说的，
is happening in many, many places, right now. 正在很多很多地方发生。
- [Narrator] Jaime Maussan has a multi-faceted story, -[旁白]哈伊米.莫森是一个经历丰富的报道者，
that spans the over-arcing theme of ET visitation. 它跨越了外星人来访的宏大主题。
He has coordinated the investigation of the tridactylus beings in Peru, 他协调了对秘鲁的三趾目生物的调查，
and that could become the most important finding that has been made on the theme. 这可能是关于这个主题的最重要的发现。
His story will continue,and so will "Beyond the Spectrum." 他的故事将继续，《超越光谱》也将继续。
翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick